Tuesday, February 07, 2006
Does it matter what you believe?
At dinner with friends not long ago, I overheard one say to another,
"I believe God created different religions, like Islam and Buddhism, so that people from different cultures could know God from their unique viewpoint."
The other friend nodded in agreement, as if the opinion made sense. I was too stunned to challenge that incredible statement. These friends were fellow Christians. How could they be so wrong on the fundamentals? Before I could decide how to respond, the subject changed and the opportunity was lost.
On the surface, perhaps missing the chance to respond was a good thing. The viewpoint that all religions/roads point to God is so seriously rooted in error, my challenge would not have been dispatched with gentleness.
To wit: By making/agreeing with that statement,
1. My friends call Jesus a liar. Jesus stated emphatically [John 14:6]that He was the only way to God, that no person can get to God unless he or she follows Jesus. Men and women who follow Jesus Christ are called "Christians"--not Muslims, not Buddhists.
2. My friends make a mockery of Jesus' sacrificial death. If there were other ways to become acceptable to God (Koran: Make war on the infidels, Buddha: find your karma) Christ's death and resurrection served no reasonable purpose.[Hebrews 9:22, Romans 5:8-9]
3. My friends must now address the different religions' inherent problems of exclusion and contradiction. For example, Buddhists deny there is a God. So why would God establish a religion that denies His own existence?
4. My friends misstate God's reason for creating man. God wants relationship, not religion. Religion is man's effort to fill the void created when man rejected a relationship with God.
Any response grounded in scripture would most certainly be considered harsh and intolerant. Definitely not politically correct. The world's point of view--that it matters not what you believe, only that you are sincere in your beliefs--is warm and fuzzy and politically correct. Nevertheless, as Christians we are commanded to reconcile our beliefs to God's point of view, not the world's.
19 Comments:
Well written! Doesn’t anyone find it suspicious or convenient that those who deny the one true road to God often site (via some action; words or gesture with uncomfortable postures) their unwillingness at potentially offending others?
Now, if I wanted someone NOT to join my enemy wouldn’t one way to achieve this task be to market my enemy as the same as others. Statistics show us that if there are at least five other “same” groups, I have increased the chances that I will be able to persuade more victims not to join my enemy.
At the University we call this “Camouflage to Make it Unknown.”
“Turn them away. Give them alternatives. Seduce them with personal options that appeal to their current understanding. Make it easy for them so they do not explore o investigate the teachings of the enemy. Offer an illusion of authority and genuine study that nurtures their arrogance and elitist intellect. Mask their fraud but maintain their ego.” (From the Fatin Letters – The Niece of Screw tape)
Signed The Screwtape Traitor
Maybe your friends have more sympathy for human kind than you seem to have,asshole, they obviously don't feel that people of different religions should face "hell".
Anonymous - I don't want any human to face hell either--no one in their right mind does! And neither does God, for the Bible says it was created for Lucifer and his angels,but when man casts his lot with Satan by rejecting Jesus, man is no longer free to choose his destiny.
Your or my wanting people of other persuasions to go to heaven does not make it happen. The rules have been defined. It is their option to measure up or face the consequences.
Good assessment of Christianity. It is exclusive and based on the Bible. I would go a little further and say that I think the Bible teaches that God ultimately determines who will accept His salvation offered soley through Jesus. There is a record in the gospels that a blind man shouted out for Jesus to have mercy on him. When Jesus subsequently responded to him and gave the blind man his sight, we see a couple of things: 1) the blind man knew he had a need, 2) Jesus met that need. Both of these things were gifts given by God and were His prerogative to bring about. Most of us would not consider blindness a gift, but it turned out to be so for this man. Also if Jesus had not chosen to walk by this man or respond to him that day, he wouldn't have been healed. Thankfully Jesus gives Christians like the blind man the opportunity to say "I once was blind but now I see", and that is due to His "Amazing Grace". Thanks and keep up the good work.
1.You are right I agree with you 100% Jesus can never be a liar.Also no person can get to God unless he or she follows Jesus.But its here where you are wrong that the followers of christ are called christians the Muslims are also the followers of christ but they dont stop at him they also believe in the last prophet.
2. Koran doesnt just say Make war on the infidels, also Christ didn't die
Ok, let's use our brains a bit.
> 1. My friends call Jesus a liar. Jesus stated emphatically [John
> 14:6]that He was the only way to God, that no person can get to God
> unless he or she follows Jesus. Men and women who follow Jesus
> Christ are called "Christians"--not Muslims, not Buddhists.
The current scientific and historic facts point that Jesus probably is
a myth and there is no god. So quoting the bible (which is full of
inconsistencies if you use your brain) is a waste of time.
> 2. My friends make a mockery of Jesus' sacrificial death. If there
> were other ways to become acceptable to God (Koran: Make war on the
> infidels, Buddha: find your karma) Christ's death and resurrection
> served no reasonable purpose.[Hebrews 9:22, Romans 5:8-9]
It's illogical for someone to die 'for' someone elses bad judgements
(ie "sin"). It doesn't make any sense if you use your brain. So the
death of a mythological person is only a way to trap you - if you
don't use your brain.
> 3. My friends must now address the different religions' inherent
> problems of exclusion and contradiction. For example, Buddhists deny
> there is a God. So why would God establish a religion that denies
> His own existence?
Simple: there are no gods. So the contradictions are easy to
explain. The religions are ALL wrong. (Zen Buddhisim, at least,
isn't really a religion anyway.)
> 4. My friends misstate God's reason for creating man. God wants
> relationship, not religion. Religion is man's effort to fill the
> void created when man rejected a relationship with God.
How do you know what god really wants? You made that up. You read
from a book that is so inconsistent that you could figure anything.
Slavery is GOOD according to the "good" book. So the reality is that
the "good book" is the most horrid thing that happened to us.
> Any response grounded in scripture would most certainly be
> considered harsh and intolerant. Definitely not politically correct.
Hmm. Then you have a serious problem because you are inconsistent:
the teaching (not originally from Jesus!) is to love thy neighbor. So
it has nothing to do with PC.
> The world's point of view--that it matters not what you believe,
> only that you are sincere in your beliefs--is warm and fuzzy and
> politically correct. Nevertheless, as Christians we are commanded to
> reconcile our beliefs to God's point of view, not the world's.
So you failed because you didn't use your brain and determine that
THERE IS NO GOD.
listen carefully!
It seems to me that faith is not a party system. Religion perhaps is and, certainly,religous organizations have an agenda that better aligns with a political party than the teachings of Christ.
To have faith is to talk-the-talk AND walk-the-walk or at least sincerely try. Like love and hate, faith is an action. Should we be truly made in the mold/image of God, then surely our Creator could be just as horrified as most of us are about the world we are creating for those who come after us.
Abortion seems a salvation if we cannot provide a better world than this.
WS
BTW, Jesus expelled the money-changers from the temple becuase they were desecrating God's house by standing in the way of those who would worship.
just curious how saying 'if you used your brain' makes you the knower of ALL things...
Is it not a scientific fact, sir, that no person uses 100% or there brains? So how could you claim to know that there is no God?
I don't think you have your facts straight, and now that 'I'm using my brian', I know that you don't have your facts straight.
Your imposition is unacceptable. Maybe you felt obliged to state your beliefs to save us Christians from...what exactly are you trying to save us from again? You lost me!
Without 'a god' as you so modestly put it, who is going to hold me to law? Why should I follow anything you say, when I'm here to live for myself, and I should be able to do whatever the hell I want?
Then you will go on to say, 'well it's the majority coming together to form those laws, and it's the majority making sure they are followed'. Hmmm....interesting.
My response to you is, in a world where this 'majority' you speak of believe in a higher entity, "a god' if you will, shouldn't you be doing the same? I mean, most of the people in the world believe in 'a god' you should follow them because they are the 'majority'...
Don't come on here and expect me to go, "oh wait...this guy is so right, thank you some guy out there!" When you aren't using your brain...I'd have to be dumb, deaf, and blind-possibly crippled-to follow you, cuz you have performed nothing for me in this world, that should make me believe in you.
Those there are some tasty apples.
and even though you don't believe in God I just want you to know that he loves you and cares about you, even though you haven't been returning his calls. Peace.
GOD. IS. NOT. REAL. and he will never be. It's just a fantasy story, and non of it's real.
TO ANONYMOUS:
Why are you so angry? Why are you so mad at Christians? If you think there is no God, then you should not care what we think. Yet, you are so insistant that we agree with you, why?
You seem so upset, why even come here, perhaps to get your ulcer in an uproar? Are you mad at the world because the majority, as a previous poster stated, believes in a deity? And if you are right, and lets be straight here, I believe you are "dead" wrong, then its natural selection and you should never love anyone or have any emotions, they make no sense in a purely natural selection world. So ease up, take a deep breath and and enjoy your day, oops, sorry, there isn't any enjoyment for an atheist.
Hello everyone,
Good to know that we can read other comments without hating. Anyway, I have a co-worker who has derided me for my 'egocentric' views. I am a Christian and for whatever reason, perhaps the same as a previous commentator, he is determined to 'right my wrong headed thinking.'
Why does it matter? If there is no God. If Jesus is a myth and we are all doomed to be dust for eternity, why does it matter? If you are right sir, we shall share the same fate. But, and this is the biggest one you will ever face, if God does exist and if he took the form of human flesh to become the sacrificial lamb, if he has offered this salvation to you and you have rejected it. Then you sir will definately be miserable in hell.
Besides, isn't it better that we Christians do good rather than bad. If we are following lies propagated by a fictious book, then let us be. At least you can rest peacefully in your home and run a thriving business. Because when Christians practice Christianity, they will pray for you and witness a bit, but we will never intrude on your privacy to condemn your lifestyle. Jesus tells us that if you don't want to listen to let you go, ie, "cast not our pearls", and to "shake the dust from off our feet".
Hello,
I was thinking about what anonymous had to say. Why does everything God did have to be based on logic?? You are using logic to try to disprove everything. Even if a decision isn't logical doesn't mean it isn't the right choice.
God has emotions just like you or me. He loves and he hates just like you or me. Why can't his decision to send his son to help us be based on that love that he has for all of us? And why do you think that it is unlikely that Jesus would choose to die for us?
He was willing to sacrifice everything for us. It was God's and Jesus's love that has saved me. And it is their love that can still save you.
2 Cor 5:15 O lord Jesus that you may be my Lord and master .. in all that I do in all that I think in all of my time in all of my ambitions ... in everything. For we did not choose you but you chose us.
If we have repented of our sins, turned away, believed that Christ took our punishments and asked him to enter our life as Lord... he will come in and change our life and that will stand as a testimony against all. We do not believe in a philosphy or some way of thought ... but a living God .. one who rose again... one who can directly intervene with our life.
There is no ...if you were right then ... or if i where right ... the word of God, the Bible says so and that is that. If one does not want to agree with that then one faces the consequences. If any one needs to be convinced of the truth ... there is no need for arguments ... it is only God who can open our eyes.
There is no need for bitterness, we can pray .. think of Saul before he become Paul.
But to any man who wants to check the validity ...Jesus say ... I stand at the door and knock .. if any man hears my voice and open the door i will come in and dine with him ... so one can decide for oneself ...becausue it is not a theory but a living God who will intervene and change your life for ever.
Well if one does not feel that he is a sinner ... then it would be like going to court for a speeding ticket and saying to the best of his knowledge he was doing an OK speed ... the one who judges will say ...probably OK if you were sitting here .. but here i am sitting and I go by the law and not by what you have decided for yourself ..but then again if we are true to our consience we know that we have fallen short of God's standards.
For those who do not want to believ the existence of God ... its says," a fool says in his own heart there is no God". This is what the Bible says .. and I will leave it that ...even if i be accused of so called lack of original thinking ....
But to them that have made Christ thier Lord ... not the luke warm I have accepted Christ or I got a Christian name ... make Him Lord of all that you are and have, take Gods word for what it is ... let it be the primary reference point. And let us pray that God open the eyes of our fellow bloggers ...
I was just passing by ... I would request Mr.Anonymous to read the The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans from the New testament.
May God open our eyes...
Just a quick note to anonymous' statement that Jesus was not real. There is historical records (not just the Bible) that account for the vilidity of the man known as Jesus. Now if anyone chooses not to believe that Jesus was the son of God, that is there choice; I for one do believe that Jesus was the Son of God who died for my sins and was buried and arose on the third day. I believe that belief and acceptance of Him is the only way to heaven. But nomatter what each of us believe, when we die we will find out who is right and then it will be too late to change our minds.
It seems to me that so many people accuse Christians of being intolerent but the same ones are sure fired up against Christians. Don't that make them intolerent.
I use to think God and Allah were the same, but now I've placed my whole faith in Christ Jesus.
Keep praying for those who don't believe. Let the way you live your life be a witness for Christ, because as the saying goes..."Actions speak louder than words."
May you all have a blessed day/night.
~A sister in Christ.
Will someone please explain to me why so much importance is placed upon names? Mr. Geffert would no doubt be very offended if I took the Bible and bound it with the cover of the Koran, for example, and called it 'The Koran'. Why? Has the message contained in it changed?
God is Good, and Good is God. What does it matter, then, what I call God? Or what I call the book that contains God's teachings? So if a worshipper of Allah arrived at the same state of mind and soul as a worshipper of Christ, is Christ's mission not fulfilled for him?
Or do you see Jesus as nothing more than a recruiter?!?
Christ taught us to love like Him. If a Muslim learns to love like that, let's be happy because we will surely see him, or her, in God's Kingdom.
I can't understand how a Christian can quote John 14:6 (see above) and not realize that to 'follow' Christ means to learn what He has to teach. NOT to take on a label of 'Christian'.
"So if a worshipper of Allah arrived at the same state of mind and soul as a worshipper of Christ, is Christ's mission not fulfilled for him?"
No, the Christian has a regenerated mind, the Muslim doesn't. It's not about achieving a state of mind but by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
"I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned." John 15:5-6
Bible Reliability:
1. Historical (Proven repeatedly by Archeology; its historical content is extremely accurate to the detail.)
2. Scientific (It’s not a science book, but NONE of it’s content disagrees with facts of science, only people’s THEORIES of scientific origin.) Young Earth/Old Earth Example: Instantaneous creation, like man for example, would have been impossible for the scientist to put a date on. Question: “Why would God trick us then?!” Answer: “Telling isn‘t tricking.” Question: How do we function scientifically then? Answer: Believe God, explore, study and understand His creation in light of what He said and apply scientific facts as it appears and as a matter of function. God doesn’t find it necessary to give us the “age of the earth”. Macro Evolution is NOT biblical ‘like species evolving into new species’, while Minor Evolution is biblical ‘like the curse effecting some of the animals turning them from herbivores to carnivores.
3. Moral (It’s moral content is universally, socially, and internally coherent.)
4. Spiritual (Unlike other religions, the Bible is God reaching out to man, not man working his way to God. Biblical Spirituality is simply believing (faith) in Him, what He has done, and abiding (Fellowship) in Him.. John 15:1-17, Eph 2:8-9.
The Bible: The Bible is written in human languages because God chose to speak through human beings who lived in a certain time and culture in history with a specific language. It is recorded by means of a human style of literature, through divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is this reason we are able to apply basic principles of interpretation to understand God's message for us today.
Epistemologies: They greatly differ in the way they relate to different epistemologies for their superior source of truth. On what basis do you except truth?
Revelation= General and special
Mysticism= Paranormal or extra-ordinary experiences
Subjectivism= Feeling, emotions, intuition
Rationalism= logic or reason
Empiricism= sensory perception
Relativism= Individually or socially constructed
Pragmatism= What ever works, problem solved
Memetics= memes passed on like genes
Agnosticism= impossible to know
As a woman I will quote the bible too, to prove it is nonsense and offensive.
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 – "13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," 15 then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. 16 The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver a and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you."
1 Timothy 2:11-12 – "11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
Judges 9:51-54 - "51 Inside the city, however, was a strong tower, to which all the men and women—all the people of the city—fled. They locked themselves in and climbed up on the tower roof. 52 Abimelech went to the tower and stormed it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, 53 a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull. 54 Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say, 'A woman killed him.' " So his servant ran him through, and he died."
~ a bit more... now lets leave the woman issue aside to not be biased...
1 Peter 2:18 - "18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."
Exodus 21:20-21 – "20 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."
Deuteronomy 20:10-16 – "10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."
And this is the word of God. And for this you shall go to heaven. Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. I do wish to see what interpretations Christians can give to this, as to not offend others.
If God exists, and I certainly believe he does, and if God wants us to have a relationship with him, then it follows that he would have revealed himself in some way to those who would follow him.
It does not follow that this same God would have confused the issue by revealing himself in inconsistent and multiple ways using exclusive truth claims in contradictory and "opposing" religions.
If God exists, and he has revealed himself to Man, it is critical to learn what that revelation is. To believe that God would contradict himself and would inspire follows to hold multiple contradictory truth claims is to reduce God to sub-human levels of intelligence.
For the anonymous poster who claims that the Christian and Jewish Bibles are riddled with inaccuracies and contradictions, I have only this answer: before you levy criticism against an ancient document translated into modern English, at least do your homework and study some hermeneutics. Your literacy and scholarship haven't even begun to address the sociohistorical, literary-grammatical, and lingusitic issues, much less interpretive and theological issues at stake in the passages you cited.
Frankly, it's not even worth rebutting your claims, since a simple Google search would reveal more than you apparently know.
And, really, that's not your problem anyhow. You are reacting against faith-statements with an attempt to "reason" using half-baked arguments simply because you don't want to let go of your own religious viewpoints.
And, yes, you have a religious viewpoint.
Regards,
Rich
BlogRodent
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